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	<title>heaven Archives | My Experience As...</title>
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	<link>https://nickgeek.com/tag/heaven/</link>
	<description>A Husband, Father, Youth Pastor, Geek, and Jesus Freak</description>
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		<title>Love Wins, but maybe I’m wrong</title>
		<link>https://nickgeek.com/love-wins-but-maybe-im-wrong/</link>
					<comments>https://nickgeek.com/love-wins-but-maybe-im-wrong/#comments</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick the Geek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Jesus Freak]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grace]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[heaven]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hell]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Love Wins]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickgeek.com/?p=2248</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[<p>A week or so ago I posted a video from Francis Chan called &#8220;Erasing Hell.&#8221; I said that much of what he said is very challenging to me. Actually I said it really kicked my butt. I&#8217;m very excited about the book he is writing. Anyways, this prompted a contact from someone wanting to know [&#8230;]</p>
<p>The post <a href="https://nickgeek.com/love-wins-but-maybe-im-wrong/">Love Wins, but maybe I’m wrong</a> appeared first on <a href="https://nickgeek.com">My Experience As...</a>.</p>
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										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://i0.wp.com/nickgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The_Door_to_Hell.jpg"><img data-recalc-dims="1" fetchpriority="high" decoding="async" data-attachment-id="2249" data-permalink="https://nickgeek.com/love-wins-but-maybe-im-wrong/the_door_to_hell/" data-orig-file="https://i0.wp.com/nickgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The_Door_to_Hell.jpg?fit=1000%2C667&amp;ssl=1" data-orig-size="1000,667" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}" data-image-title="The_Door_to_Hell" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://i0.wp.com/nickgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The_Door_to_Hell.jpg?fit=300%2C200&amp;ssl=1" data-large-file="https://i0.wp.com/nickgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The_Door_to_Hell.jpg?fit=974%2C650&amp;ssl=1" src="https://i0.wp.com/nickgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The_Door_to_Hell-300x200.jpg?resize=300%2C200" alt="" title="The_Door_to_Hell" width="300" height="200" class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-2249" srcset="https://i0.wp.com/nickgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The_Door_to_Hell.jpg?resize=300%2C200&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/nickgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The_Door_to_Hell.jpg?w=1000&amp;ssl=1 1000w" sizes="(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px" /></a>A week or so ago I posted a video from Francis Chan called &#8220;<a href="http://nickgeek.com/2011/05/21/franci-chan-why-we-cant-afford-to-get-hell-wrong/">Erasing Hell</a>.&#8221;  I said that much of what he said is very challenging to me.  Actually I said it really kicked my butt.  I&#8217;m very excited about the book he is writing.  Anyways, this prompted a contact from someone wanting to know more about what I was thinking on the matter so he could read/comment.  FYI, if you don&#8217;t know, clicking on the icons on the left of videos will take you to where you can comment.</p>
<p>If you aren&#8217;t familiar with the background, Chan is essentially responding to a new book from Rob Bell called <u>Love Wins.</u> In this book Bell talks about Heaven and Hell and this life we live.  It isn&#8217;t as bad as a lot of people make it out to be, but there is a lot in it that I just don&#8217;t agree with.  Bell minimizes Hell.  Well, I guess it&#8217;s important to say that he minimizes eternal punishment.  he tries to go to the original language and make it sound like certain concepts, like eternity, just don&#8217;t exist in the Bible because the people writing it didn&#8217;t have a concept of these terms.  He also minimizes the idea of sin as a punishable offense. He essentially says that our actions create our hell, that we live in misery because we desire misery, but if we change then our reality changes.</p>
<p>OK, I&#8217;m really simplifying his arguments, but that&#8217;s the distilled version.</p>
<p>At face value I can understand why so many people are up in arms, so to speak, but I think we need to take a step back.  There is something very good in this book.</p>
<p>It brings some really important questions to the forefront.  </p>
<p>Questions like, how can a loving God send someone to Hell? Or, is Jesus saving us from an angry God?</p>
<p>I think those are good questions. Questions we need to talk about, which is why I like what Francis Chan says. But if you watch the video he says something really interesting.  What if I&#8217;m wrong?  </p>
<p>He frames this in response to Rob Bell, maybe not in name but in idea, but I think it really applies to all of us. I think he understands that this reality applies to us and even him.  How can we be so arrogant to think we have the corner on truth?  Yes, we use reason, we read the Bible, we faithfully hold to what we believe, but if we are being intellectually honest, we might just be wrong.</p>
<p>That is where disagreement and debate come from.  The idea that we might be wrong.  There really isn&#8217;t any debate in certain absolute truths that are apparent to anyone.  The sun is bright.  Don&#8217;t believe me? Stare at it till you&#8217;re blind then we can debate on why you can&#8217;t see.  Ok that&#8217;s kinda harsh.  How about, gravity will cause an object on Earth to call at a rate of 9.8ms/s.  Don&#8217;t believe me? Take a stop watch to the top of a tall building and jump.  Ok sure there are some other factors to account for, but in the end the issue isn&#8217;t really debatable, it is painfully obvious.</p>
<p>The prophets, Jesus, and the Apostles talk about Hell, well actually we need to define some terms there even.</p>
<p>When we say &#8220;hell&#8221; we tend to refer to the ideas that are expressed as outer darkness, eternal fire, and absolute separation from God. However as translated in many version of the Bible it is really talking about a place best termed &#8220;Hades&#8221; or &#8220;Sheol.&#8221;  Those are the Greek and Hebrew terms for the same place.  You might be better calling that place a temporary way station.  In the Book of Revelation, chapter 20, John says this place, along with Death, are thrown into the lake of fire.  The term &#8220;hell&#8221; comes from Norse mythology and also corresponds to the idea of Hades or Sheol.  Actually it very closely corresponds to Hades since that was a term to refer to both a place and the god of that domain.  Hel, see only one &#8220;l&#8221;, was a Norse god. She, in Norse Mythology females could rule the big houses, was over a part of the underworld referred to as Helheim, House of Hel, or just &#8220;Hel.&#8221;  Same thing applies to Hades, more or less.</p>
<p>See how confusing the debate gets.  Once you understand the terms you still find that there are some really hard to follow points.  For example, Rob Bell talks about Gehenna, this is the term that Jesus often uses to refer to as the place of punishment, the one we usually refer to as Hell. he mentions that this was a garbage dump that kept burning for all the bodies and refuse that was thrown in.  In my research I found this idea didn&#8217;t show up till around 1200 AD (or CE if you prefer). The history of this concept don&#8217;t seem to fit.  What does fit is the issue of human sacrifice and death.</p>
<p>Way back in the OT it talks about how there were child sacrifices in the valley of Himmnon outside Capernum.  That is translated as Gehenna in Greek.  Now I tried reading up on this and there are a lot of different theories, what we know is that there was a god named &#8220;Moloch&#8221; that was worshiped in that region.  Archeology recently confirmed that.  Some of his priests sacrificed children along with animals and grains.  They have found pits with sacrifice victims from infants to children around 6. Now this practice was one of the most atrocious things any of us can comprehend, and God handed out a pretty hefty curse.</p>
<p>Some commentators say there was a large shrine made with different holding places.  A fire would bit lit in the shrine and the various sacrifices would be placed in the holding cells and burned.  Others say they would heat up a giant bonfire in a cave entranced believed to be an entrance to the after life, a gate of Hell.  When the stones were glowing read they would cast children against the rocks and into the fires.  In any case I think this as a close a picture to hell as you can get. No wonder this becomes the phrase used to describe a place of punishment for those who would turn against God.</p>
<p>Rob Bell talks about how we make Hell on Earth by doing stuff like this, by hurting others, but I think it misses the point.  What about the people doing evil? Yes they make Hell on Earth, but it seems they make this for the innocents, countless billions who are cast into the figurative fires, sacrificed for personal gain or pleasure or just outright sadism.  </p>
<p>I think we don&#8217;t want to see people sent to a place of torment &#8230; unless we see what those people have done. Then we want them to pay. Talk to a young girl who was molested all through her childhood and &#8230; well it takes something stronger than me to not exact punishment on their behalf.</p>
<p>But this bring us back to the same issue. What if I&#8217;m wrong?  I mean think about it.  I might not be giving God&#8217;s grace enough room.</p>
<p>So I take a step back and work the odds.  If I&#8217;m wrong.  If Hell is just a euphamism, or if it is just a place of discipline followed by restoration, if that&#8217;s true &#8230; then honestly I&#8217;m ok with that.  I know some people are offended by that idea, but if that&#8217;s true I&#8217;m ok that more people get to experience God&#8217;s love. Iw ant to see everyone restored.</p>
<p>Only, if I&#8217;m right, if the way to destruction is wide and many follow it, if the path to Life is narrow &#8230; if only a few find it &#8230; shouldn&#8217;t I be doing something to help people find this path?</p>
<p>I know I might be wrong, but if I&#8217;m not I have to do what I can while I can.</p>
<p>Oh, and one more thought.  I think Rob bell nails it when he says we should seek life. That Hell can&#8217;t be the motivator, heaven can&#8217;t even be the motivator.  The real motivator has to be LIFE. If we grab hold of the source of life, if we experience that kind of changing power, if we are full of LIFE, then we will do something to change this world, and not in some temporary way but in the kind of eternal, help those we can in a real physical way now so they can respond to LIFE and change the world, way.</p>
<p>The post <a href="https://nickgeek.com/love-wins-but-maybe-im-wrong/">Love Wins, but maybe I’m wrong</a> appeared first on <a href="https://nickgeek.com">My Experience As...</a>.</p>
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		<post-id xmlns="com-wordpress:feed-additions:1">2248</post-id>	</item>
		<item>
		<title>When we get to heaven</title>
		<link>https://nickgeek.com/when-we-get-to-heaven/</link>
					<comments>https://nickgeek.com/when-we-get-to-heaven/#respond</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick the Geek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[All]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Youth Pastor]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[heaven]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Young Adult Follow Up]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myexperienceas.nfshost.com/?p=176</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[<p>Tonight we did chapter 4 in Crazy Love. This is the first chapter that really burns. The profile of a lukewarm Christian shows how we tend to go through the motions instead of going all in. I warned the group that this chapter was much more difficult than the previous chapters. I told them to [&#8230;]</p>
<p>The post <a href="https://nickgeek.com/when-we-get-to-heaven/">When we get to heaven</a> appeared first on <a href="https://nickgeek.com">My Experience As...</a>.</p>
]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span></p>
<p>Tonight we did chapter 4 in <em>Crazy Love</em>. This is the first chapter that really burns.  The profile of a lukewarm Christian shows how we tend to go through the motions instead of going all in.  I warned the group that this chapter was much more difficult than the previous chapters.  I told them to make sure they understood that the focus was about love and not works and to avoid the trap of feeling condemned.  I tried to make it perfectly clear, but still tonight they were somewhat depressed.  The video helped some but there were still parts that were hard to deal with in our brokenness.  I did make a point to transition into something more positive.</p>
<p>In the video Francis Chan talks about doing funerals, and how some are very depressing because the life of the person leaves little hope, but some are real worship experiences because of the reality that they are worshiping with God.  I asked the group to think about and share with each other memories of some that have passed who are with God and who we can celebrate with in their joy.</p>
<p>I got to thinking about what it will be like when we get to heaven and how different it will be if we live our life totally on fire for God.  I talked about how I imagine it was for a man in the church who passed a few months ago.  He was in the nursing home witnessing to friends the Saturday night and then woke up in heaven that Sunday morning.</p>
<p>It seems there are some amazing things we can look forward to in heaven, but I think the first two things will be God and what God shows us from our lives.</p>
<p>Think about it.  I mean really think about it.  What will it be like when you see God?  I&#8217;ve never really been star struck.  I&#8217;ve met several but they are just people.  Actually most have been really cool because they will just talk to you.  I think that coming face to face with God is going to be that classic star stuck experience.  &#8220;OMG, I mean seriously you are … Do you know who you … of course you do.  OMG, I mean like wow, your God.  It&#8217;s just. Wow.  I have like this problem where I just can&#8217;t stop talking when I&#8217;m blown away, but of course You know that.  I don&#8217;t even know why I&#8217;m talking but … you know the whole creation thing.  Wow.  And like everything.  Wow.&#8221;  I imagine I would go on for a great long while making a total fool of myself but God is totally awesome and gracious so He lets me do it without trying to stop me because I have to get it over with and He doesn&#8217;t make me feel foolish even though it is. Come one I said OMG twice and like an idiot I would probably say the letters even though I hate that.  I don&#8217;t even say OMG in real life but … well it is God so totally accurate right.  </p>
<p>Anyways, after all that is done with I can see God telling us we did a good job (I figure a lot of us will go through this with God) and then when we are busy thinking of all our failures at not living up to what we should have, because come one we are in front of God so we really get that we failed, He takes us by the shoulders and gently turns us because we need to see what is coming.  He then shows us all the things that we did right.  So many little things we thought were insignificant that became huge.  Like that time you were in the missions service and felt God tell you to give all you had to the offering.  You only had $20 but had planned on going out to lunch after service.  What could $20 do but still you gave.  Then you see the lives that were changed because of it, and more and more things just like that.  The big things you thought were awesome paled against the times you honored God in the little things.</p>
<p>Just like that ray Boltz Song <em>Thank You for Giving to the Lord</em>.  I&#8217;m not sure if we are supposed to shun him now that he &#8220;came out.&#8221;  I&#8217;m not a very good Christian when it comes to shunning.  I always get confused about who we are against and why.  Opinions seem to change too often.  At one point we weren&#8217;t suppose to support Amy Grant but it seems it is acceptable again and what about Sandi Patti, I haven&#8217;t heard about her in a long time.  Anyways, I&#8217;m gonna post a video and if you can get past the &#8220;oh but he is gay now&#8221; thing then watch the video.  If you are still hung up on it … well take time to pray instead.  </p>
<p></span></p>
<p>The post <a href="https://nickgeek.com/when-we-get-to-heaven/">When we get to heaven</a> appeared first on <a href="https://nickgeek.com">My Experience As...</a>.</p>
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