Churches, we don't need no stinking churches
Posted on 02. Feb, 2010 by Nick the Geek in All, Jesus Freak, Youth Pastor
I recently read some disturbing statistics about churches here in America. We all know that churches are closing their doors all across the country. This is pretty upsetting but not what I would call disturbing. This specific statistic states that only 15% of churches are growing and only 2.2% are from conversion. This means a lot of things when you follow the logic through. Now I’m not the best at math any more, I just don’t use it that much, so please forgive me if I mess up on any of these percentages.
If 15% of churches are growing this means that 85% are holding steady or losing members. We know that a very large number are losing members, so what is happening to them? Well that is the next part of the statistic. only 2.2% of churches are growing via new converts. This means that 12.8% of churches are growing because someone has left one of the 85% and started attending the 12.8%. Another way of saying this is 85% of church growth in America is church cannibalism.
I come to that figure because 12.8% of 15% equals 85%. If I did my math right this is a down right shocking figure. Of course it gets much worse when you build out from there. In our community most churches are losing members. A couple of churches are growing but much of that growth is from members leaving one church and going to another church. This fits with the national statistics. The problem is, the disgruntled Christians that are either leaving or forcing others to leave have caused a secondary issue. There are a significant number of people who leave the Church. That is they leave whatever church they are attending and don’t start attending any other church.
This is something that I find particularly disgusting. We are so focused on getting out church to grow that we focus on getting people to come in from other churches. It is easier than building relationships with the lost and disciplining them. Lets say it take 40 hours of “encouragement” to get someone to attend your church instead of another church. This is a pretty serious investment, but nothing compared to the time it takes for a new Christian. It might take 40 hours to get them to come into the church and another 80 hours to bring them to the Cross. Next you have to disciple them and that investment might be another 160 hours. Now it may seem like I’m just making up numbers here, but I’m actually using some conservative estimates. If you invest in a person an hour a week for a year that is 52 hours. If you do that it is quite possible that they will be willing to accept an invitation to church at that time. Now they may start attending church for another year with your investment leading to 104 hours in addition to the initial 52 hour investment. Since we are focusing on relationships instead of numbers this is very reasonable. Now the person is a Christian and needs disciplining. Based on what Jesus and Paul did I don’t think a 3 year discipleship program is out of the question. At even one hour a week you have 156 hours, plus the time you are investing in them and church time, that could add 50-100% to the figure so 234-312 hours.
Obviously it is easier to fill your church with people that don’t need to be saved or discipled.
The problem is this, if you invest in moving Christians from one church to another you will lose people along the way. You will get Christians that are always looking for the next big thing. “Come to my church we have a better worship experience” and then someone finds a church with an even more dynamic worship and people will leave. We create Christians that seek the sensational and avoid anything that requires effort. Does this sound familiar? It sure does to me. So we are making Christians that are more easily picked off by satan and then cull a few off ourselves for good measure. We teach that we don’t need to reach the lost and set the Church up for failure.
The question is, how do we start impacting lives and change the growth patterns in the Church so that 85% of churches are growing through evangelism?
What are your thoughts on what can be done? Have I missed it completely? Can the Church be fixed?
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Nick the Geek
Helen
Feb 2nd, 2010
I think you are asking the right questions, Nick. Unfortunately, I don’t have any answers ready…
Nick the Geek
Feb 2nd, 2010
Let me know if you ever get any answers. I really think that the church in America will be all but wiped off the map if we don’t get the answers.
Nic at Nite
Feb 2nd, 2010
I think what we run into is spiritual masturbation. We enjoy ourselves too much and we want the instant gratification instead of investing in other relationships for true satisfaction.
If you recall, the first command that God gave is like the last command that Jesus gave. In the OT God told Adam and Eve to make children and procreate. Jesus in the NT told us to make every nation disciples and make children of God. Both instances require time and effort.
We need to stop making so many programs in church and start spending time with each other. It’s the spirit of Skulker all over again.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention because it’s a serious issue. And I am by no means innocent. It’s a challenge. We have such a false notion of growth. We think that we’re growing because numerous people attend our churches, but that doesn’t mean anything, it could mean that we’re selling our marijuana gospel. Making people feel good for a little while but they end up hungry later.
We need to focus on the Head that is Christ, what will please Him? More programs and busy bodies? Or genuine service and laying down our lives for our brothers, even if there’s only 10 people in the church?
Great reminder and challenge Nick!
nicodemusatnite.blogspot.com
Nick the Geek
Feb 2nd, 2010
Yeah, seriously true and ties in with my “Sex is Amazing” post about church growth and our focus on gratification over relationship. Jesus really is the answer, but how do we get people to focus on real change rather than superficial behavioral change?
jasonS
Feb 2nd, 2010
Very good points and questions. We all have to wake up and realize that it’s not about us and the pastor/leaders can’t do it all. Each one has to grow and submit to discipling so that they can turn and disciple others. If this is neglected altogether or only handled by the “higher-ups”, we are in trouble and we won’t reverse the trends. Not to sound hokey, but we need a move of God, a real awakening that shakes us all. Thanks Nick.
Nick the Geek
Feb 2nd, 2010
That is the biggest thing. I think people honestly believe that the pastor’s job is to evangelize and disciple. The pastor is paid so I don’t have to be involved. Unfortunately we, as pastors, have propagated this. We use all kinds of fancy terms and Greek/Hebrew blah blah blah so that our added value is worth money. We have to be needed for job security and now we are paying the price for our mistakes. I wonder what a move of God will look like? I think that if we open our self to a move of God the church will end up looking radically different.
Nic at Nite
Feb 2nd, 2010
@Nick, I think we have to let the Holy Spirit guide us. Our human eyes and desires deceive us. If we really meditate and are a family at our church that will break down the barriers of superficiality. And the superficial people won’t like that because they won’t like the hard work going on, they may leave on their own accord, therefore sifting out the true worshipers.
Danny Bixby
Feb 2nd, 2010
“The question is, how do we start impacting lives and change the growth patterns in the Church so that 85% of churches are growing through evangelism?”
Personally, I don’t think that should be the goal. By that, I mean I don’t think all churches should be growing. I think a majority (yes, over 50% at least) should be closed.
Immediately.
Today.
Every single church, every individual congregation has a life cycle. The church universal will last forever, each specific local church will not.
If churches viewed themselves as part of a larger church, if we really had more of a ‘kingdom mindedness’ in our ministries, we would not see the kind of numbers you’re mentioning.
Because we’d realize that most of us are reinventing the wheel…right next door to each other. You have 4 churches on a street that can fit 300 people each and only 50 go to each one. Work together, stop the sideways energy and expand outward from there.
If we were constantly looking outside instead of looking inside (or side to side) than we wouldn’t have this sort of thing.
But that’s the fun of Christianity in USA, it’s a hobby.
Nick the Geek
Feb 2nd, 2010
I tend to agree that we need to be willing to work with out churches instead of spending out time and energy duplicating. I also agree that closing a lot of churches might be what needs to happen before we see the kind of change that God desires, but I feel like closing churches just so other churches will be more full is a bad thing. I’d rather see a really different kind of church than what we have.
Imagine if there was a community church that was actually a dozen or so churches. The pastors worked closely together to bring about discipleship in concert with one another and hosted events together. This community church collaborates with various ministries, and try to plug new Christians into the best possible environment. A person might get saved because of the ministry of church A but gets plugged into the discipleship program of church C and then later into the family ministry of Church G because the ministers actually work together and bring their leadership together to help each other. I think many churches isn’t bad but we have to push past the ministers’ associations that I’ve seen and into something much more collaborative.
Danny Bixby
Feb 2nd, 2010
Connectional denominations try to do things like that…and often fail miserably.
Methodism comes to mind immediately (as I used to be Methodist). That system you describe is basically the entire point behind the system they promote….but it only works as far as the specific ministers are NOT territorial chihuahuas.
And most are.
Carl
Feb 2nd, 2010
Danny brought up a point that I think wasn’t addressed with your statistics in the main article. How many people coming to growing churches left a dead church where they were not being discipled or even believers? Playing with statistics is a little like playing with fire.
Statistics where the responder gets to determine the category they fit into are tough to gauge reality from.
What constitutes a new convert, and shouldn’t we as the church be concerned with creating disciples rather than converts? I went to church regularly my entire life & claimed to be a Christian (one of the supposed 80% in this country). However, Christ pulled me from religious darkness by using a friend from a different church. I began attending his church where I have grown as a disciple, but at the time I would not have labeled myself a new convert.
Finally, your community church concept seems grounded in Utopian principles rather than biblical principles. The local (individual) church is better served by a great diversity rather than dispersing per socio or cultural status (e.g. college ministry served by one church, family ministry served by another). How does your concept achieve Paul’s instruction to Timothy in 1 Timothy 5? What does corporate celebration/worship look like in that scenario, and how does it promote & strengthen connections/relationships?
This is not to say that the global church shouldn’t work together as Christ’s Church. Local churches should exhibit a uniqueness from one another exhibiting the fullness of Christ as a whole, but not to the detriment of developing relationships grounded in accountable transparency. A declining church should be asking serious questions of itself (as should the growing church) rather than criticizing or envying their neighbor. Lest we forget the Holy Spirit’s role in Christ’s church.
Nick the Geek
Feb 2nd, 2010
I agree that some people leave churches because those churches are dead and dying, but I also have seen first hand where a church is torn apart (cannibalized) when other churches could help them.
I disagree that my idea isn’t a Biblical principle. When Paul writes to a church it is to a community church. We seem to think there was some big church but it was a series of smaller churches with a single bishop over them. The bishop was tasked with ensuring sound doctrine was taught in the individual churches, resolving disputes between the churches, and helping the local pastor. Fighting a bickering did happen, but Paul and James address those issues and the advice is never, “go to another church,” or “get rid of the pastor, or “close down the church.”
At no point was I suggesting that we tear apart growing churches, but rather that we need to figure out how we can increase the number of new Christians in our Church instead of shifting around the people in churches. A church growing because disgruntled people are filling it up from other churches is not healthy any more than a church that is losing disgruntled members.
Carl
Feb 3rd, 2010
The problem of church cannibalism is a sticky one. How much of the problem lies with the church– both the sending and the receiving. The church receiving new congregates has an obligation to know those people and the situations that brought them there, especially if coming from another church. The church losing congregates has the obligation to pursue those leaving and ask within why this is happening.
I agree there is a flavor-of-the-month epidemic in the United States in regard to the church. Is this a judgment on the church or the culture? Much has to do with the church’s capitulation with the culture rather than raising a strong body. Much of the church starts and stops with numbers, this is why I ruffle at statistics which only tends to feed the number mentality. I completely agree “a church growing because disgruntled people are filling it up from other churches is not healthy any more than a church that is losing disgruntled members.” How much is the responsibility of leadership as well as the body as a whole? The leadership of a church is responsible for discipling its members, however there is still a personal responsibility to faith. As long as Christ has allowed His Church to be run by men there will always be some problems. “In the last days there will come times of difficulty.” The church needs to more seriously heed Paul’s instruction to the church in 2 Timothy 3, but instead we start another church.
The current mentality of church planting in the U.S. is troublesome. Rather than expending the energy Paul did to restore the Corinthian church we haul off and start a new church. We fall on the sword of current culture’s three e’s: ease, expedience, and expendable.
Finally, I agree the first century church was a “community church.” However, the churches were based on community, or where one lived– not based on what ministry you fit into. The U.S. church suffers from our cultures lack of community and the church is not filling the void of a severe need for community and relationship.
Sherry Meneley
Feb 2nd, 2010
Your tag “church cannibalism” – that really says it all. What a great phrase – and it’s a sad thing. Especially “stealing” from youth groups (as I know is dear to your heart) – because just like you said – people drop off in moves and changes.
Church should be a rock, an anchor, something to be dedicated to. I think people are becoming less and less loyal. And maybe some churches take advantage of that fact. Churches don’t need to compete…
Wouldn’t it be great if churches would share their member databases and not go after each others members – but rather use that list to find those missing on the lists. It will never happen – but nice idea.
Nick the Geek
Feb 2nd, 2010
It is funny but the youth groups I work with have several students that attend multiple groups. I believe 10-15 of the students that attend my Youth consider another church their primary church. Their church meets on a different night so it works.
I sit down regularly with the YPs from these other churches and we do events together. We try to figure out things that allow us to reach the thousand plus teens that aren’t in church in our community knowing that if we reach them every church in our community will be full of students.
I wonder what would happen if this caught on with the “big church?”
Mia Ashley
Feb 2nd, 2010
God is calling His church to come together to prepare his bride and to bring in the end time harvest. However, the church is busy entertaining, recruiting and trying to find ways to get people to come their palatial palaces. We have taken the great “god of entertainment” and said “look at us, look who we are, look what we can do”. The modern day church is busy stealing sheep, making backroom deals and selling Jesus just like Judas did.
The church hasn’t received the message that he said “Go into all the world and preach the gospel”. We talk about taking nations but we have done nothing to go out and evangelize our neighborhoods and communities. We’ve been told that evangelizing is this one’s job and that one’s calling. Did you notice that he said “Go” he didn’t say go pastor or go evangelist? The modern day church is sitting comfortable inside their palatial palaces waiting for people to come. We have prayed for the laborers to come and we have failed to realize that WE ARE THE LABORERS! Meanwhile every second that passes by another goes off to lost eternity.
Think about how the first church was established. 120 people gathered in an upper room, they came together to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit. They were all endued with power, power to do what..BECOME A WITNESS! We have used power in the modern day church to say “look at my great anointing”! The infilling of the Holy Spirit and the fire of God needs to fall on the church once again. When we get a clue that they are not coming to us that we are to go to them…we will see miracles, and many will be saved, delivered and set free.
A Church that goes out and evangelizes will be a church that grows! The modern day church wants their ear tickling messages and a comfy seat to sit in. God is saying to this church I find you neither hot nor cold but luke warm. He is about to spew the modern day church out of his mouth. His church will be built by the living stones and the gates of hell will not prevail.
God is looking for those that he can show himself strong through. Where are the ones who will lay down their will for His, because those are the ones that he will use. Lester Sumrall predicted about ten years ago that the next great revival would happen through the lay people. When we get tired of coffee bars, skits, programs, pizza parties and a social watered down gospel, then we will be ready to stop playing church and be THE CHURCH!
By the way this isn’t just all talk. I am a layperson, one without a title or a status in the church. I stepped out two years ago and learned how to win souls. I heard a message about going after the harvest and souls and a fire was lit in me that has been burning ever since then. You can go to http://www.revival.com and download the gospel script and step out and let God use you. I did and my life has never been the same since. In the past two years, I have lead over 800 people one on one to the Lord. It’s called the gospel and it works, we just have to work the gospel.
Nick the Geek
Feb 2nd, 2010
Preach it. Seriously I strongly agree with “lay” Christians stepping up. Paul clearly teaches that the “leadership” of the Church is there to help build up the members of the Church so that they, the members and leadership, can do the good works which God has prepared already for them.
I also believe revival will be lead by lay leaders. Most recent revivals have been. I mean real revivals not just some church with a big revival service.
Mia Ashley
Feb 2nd, 2010
When true revival comes there will be an upheavel in the church! It will expose the counterfiet and run every religious devil out of town! When Jesus shows up NOTHING will remain the same! It’s time to turn the money changers tables OVER!
OK WATCH this video and get FIRED UP cause God wants to use every man, every woman and every child to carry the fire of revival to a lost and dying world!
http://www.revival.com/greatawakeningpromo/
Natalie
Feb 10th, 2010
Churches need to empower their members to make disciples.
One way to do this is to provide tools that teach people how to make disciples. This is what my church uses. I’ve never used this workbook itself, I think I have used the “One To One”, “Experiencing Victory”, and “Spiritual Foundations” book (by the sam organization/authors) on the girl I disciple (she was not saved or churched 6 months ago, but she was HUNGRY- now she is saved, churched and an active, volunteering member!).
http://www.everynationstore.com/Detail.bok?no=71
Hmmm. Now I kind of feel like I answered your question with a “look at how my church does it, we’re so cool” kind of response… not my iintentions at all! But I wish I had a tool like this years ago.
I don’t think it really matters what exactly you use though, because all of these workbooks are basically just books full of Bible verses that you take others through. I guess what matters more is seeing it done (being discipled yourself).
I wouldn’t have had the confidence to disciple someone if I hadn’t been discipled myself in the first place, about 4 or 5 years ago- and I was saved and churched all 21 years of my life… had led bible studies and been in leadership groups at church.. i had just never seen it done!
Nick the Geek
Feb 10th, 2010
Thanks for the idea. I really think this is important. I believe strongly that a church needs to be active in worship, evangelism, and discipleship/mentoring. If a church is failing in one of these it might still grow but it is unstable and likely not real growth. I’ve seen plenty of this. Discipleship needs to be well rounded too though. Teaching on theology without practical application isn’t really discipleship. Looks like you guys are doing what needs to be done. I just wish more churches were. Heck I wish I could get my church to do this.
Natalie
Feb 10th, 2010
“We need to stop making so many programs in church and start spending time with each other.”
YES!!!